94 jap cooper cutting out

[cotzy.j]

Hi all,

Some of you may have seen the thread about the mini in RTE. Myself and the brother spent weeks preparing her for the MTM this year, and sadly after only 5 mins on the road to Donegal she started cutting out.

Spent 2 hours at the roadside trying to figure it out to no avail. My brother then took the hard decision to get her home, and leave the MTM for another year and I continued on in my own car.

The mini is a 1994 1.3 automatic, with carburettor conversion and centre exit exhaust. 57,000kms on the clock.

The problem is she'll lose power and eventually stop. It feels like she's running out of petrol, but then she'll start right back up with no problem, drive for a short while and then cut out again. Also the rev counter seems to have stopped working...not sure if this is just coincidental?

All ideas welcome, thanks

[CB_Phil]

I have a '97 Jap import & have the exact same problem, started to happen Saturday. Thought it maybe vapor lock, but doesnt seem to be the case. Have you checked your carbs? thats what Im gona check out, thinking there maybe some dirt on the needle as its only @ low speed.
if I find anything Ill let you know, best of luck

[Billy]

Check the ignition coil. This happened me heading to the MTM a few years ago. There are 2 types of coils used on the Minis over the years. If yours is the wrong one, they are exactly the symptons you'll experience.

[jocelynn]

That sounds like the throttle sensor on the inlet manifold is giving
You problems.

[woody]

Has the car been running properly on the carb since conversion? Whats your fuel pump/filter/ regulator setup?

[clubmankev]

I'd suspect the coil, as billy alluded to. Had a similar problem in the past, which also coincided with the tacho giving up too. It was down to a bad coil connection.

[cotzy.j]

thanks for the tips lads

Ok so I changed the coil, and it hasn't made any difference. But the coil connection would make sense... Kev would like to hear more on this please!

Also It seems the throttle sensor was removed when the carburettor was modified. Pic below, just in case I'm wrong!

Woody - the car was running fine until we set off for Malin head last Friday. The carb conversion was done before I owned her, and i don't know what the fuel pump/filter/ regulator setup is?

[The Marcos Graveyard]

Looks like it a Filter King fuel filter o the left there below the fuse box. There should be a screw and wire clip underneath it to remove the bowl, careful now, as it'll have fuel in it when you do.

[woody]

Looking at the picture that looks like a combined filter /pressure regulator which would imply that the injection tank and pump and origional filter under the car have been retained.
Does the car start easy and idel no problem?
If so will the car drive steady at low reves?
Does it only cut out when driven at higher speeds?
If so you could have fuel starvation which could be a dirty filter or kinked pipe/hose. Check the hoses on the regulator for kinks and check the pipes under the car which can get flattened by bad jacking. The front filter can be opened and cleaned but the rear one ( inside the rear subframe ) needs to be replaced.

[cotzy.j]

Woody - you are correct. The original injection tank and pumps are retained. And yes it only seems to cut out when driven at higher speeds

But the latest symptom had me scratching my head a bit - after putting back on the original coil, it wouldn't start. After checking the plugs there was no spark... Then mysteriously it started up fine

I've been told this could be the crankshaft sensor, but I don't know where to find it....

[woody]

Crankshaft sensor is located below the starting motor but was made redundant when the injection system was removed, its just back to a distributor.Can you post the part number on the dizzy(5 digits starting with a 4). When the carb was fitted was there a heat shield put between it and the exhaust? The small black pipe comming out of the front of the carb and heading towards the servo , is that going into the ECU or the distributor? Its strange that the ECU has been left in the car unless the person who did the conversion wasn't compadent enough to remove it.

[DaveC]

If, as Woody suggests, the Filter King is also a pressure regulator, is the pressure set too low and it is preventing enough fuel getting to the carb at higher revs, which may be why it is cutting out at higher speeds?

[cotzy.j]

Still no joy

Dave - The problem has presented itself at higher revs and higher speeds, but now I can say that it does it once the engine gets up to temperature. Once it's starts to cut out, if i pop it into neutral it'll rev away fine... very strange


Woody - I searched for the crankshaft sensor, but couldn't find it. Hard to find anything under that bonnet to be honest!


Also I couldn't see any 5 digit number starting with a 4 on the distributor. Where should it be? Pics below of the distributor, it doesn't have points it's a rotor arm

Number reads 54403806 FR3


Number reads 54407808



I'm not sure what the heat shield should look like, but the pic below shows something that looks like one. Not very big though?




Finally the small black pipe coming out of the front of the carb goes straight into the ECU. It sits into a small rubber bung at the bottom. Came out while I was following it - so i pushed it back in. No change
Pic Below

[woody]

Looking at the photos it isn't too cear but you may have something there that I've never seen or heard done before. Usualy when the injection system is replaced by a carb the dizzy is also replaced and the ECU removed along with all the redundent sensors. It appears that the ECU and SPi Dizzy may have been retained to control the ignition timing. Yould would need the dizzy number which is on the side of the dizzy( may need a mirror to see it ) to confirm this.

[keith]

agree with woody.. sure looks like the injection throttle body & manifold was swapped for a carb & intake manifold.. everything else looks standard jap spi. if thats the case the fuel is fed from a high pressure pump in the tank. - hence the pressure regulator and return pipe.

the small black pipe from the manifold (or carb) to the ECU is a vacuum feed to the load sensor circuit in the ECU, it wont prevent the engine starting or running - it will run like a dog though - little or no advance, as the ECU thinks the engine is at full throttle.

if the ECU is still controlling the spark then the crank sensor is still needed.. I think if the crank sensor was faulty the car wouldn't start or run at all. this is looking more and more like fuel starvation - depends how it dies. does it shut off clean or sputtering? I assume the fuel pressure regulator is adjustable, perhaps its set too low as was mentioned before?

[The Marcos Graveyard]

Would it be better then just to fit a standard dizzy and run the vacuum pipe to it, do away with the ECU control of the ignition altogether ?

[woody]

Or refit an injection system if everything else is in place,having just driven one to Italy and back I think the SPi has been unfairly put down, proberbly by mechanics who bemoned the move away from carbs they could tinker with. The first thing you MUST do is establish what you have then you can look for solutions instead of chasing your tail.

[keith]

easier/cheaper to sort out whats there imho. no reason why it shouldn't just work if what appears to be fuel starvation is fixed.

[DaveC]

By coincidence, I was reading last months Mini Magazine earlier.
Keith Calver makes reference to converting an Spi to a carburettor in a previous issue - 114, Winter 2005.
He kept the ECU, fitted a carb, but fitted a different fuel pump, leaving the Spi pump in the fuel tank.
He reckoned it gave more power and better fuel consumption.

Might be worth a look at a back issue if you can to see if it helps your set up.
You might need a new fuel pump and to take out the filter king

[woody]

Has anybody managed to dig up issue 114.
Would be very interested to see if the throttle position sensor should have been fitted to the carb as the ECU has no way of knowing when it should be at idle .

[keith]

its fair to assume this car was running more or less ok before it was laid up?

[woody]

My MPi engine running on a carb is running quite well but I know theres room for improvment if I ever get time to sort it out. I was reading up on the MEMs in the Rover manual and it mentions using the throtle position sensor to indicate idle and adjust timming accordingly. Normally the SPi ECU uses absolute manifold pressure but the picture of the carb above shows it been feed from the carb beside the butterfly which may or may not have the same effect on idle. I'd be interested to see the artical to see who developed it and how much reserch went into it , always interested to see other peoples ideas on minis. Like I said earlier its not something I have come accross or something I would have considered as most people who dump the injection system also want rid of the ECU. There is also the possabillity that the person who removed the injection and fitted the carb didn't know what they were doing and accidently stumbled into this, easly done.

[DaveC]

Woody - I may have it in the attic and I am due a trip up there! If I find it I will let you know

[woody]

cotzy can you tell us how well it did run and do you know any history of the conversion.
Several people now looking for the article dave, lets hope we can dig it up.

[keith]

cotzy can you tell us how well it did run and do you know any history of the conversion.
Several people now looking for the article dave, lets hope we can dig it up.

there are bills (http://www.irishminis.ie/forum/viewtopi ... 234#p69352) and history....