That old chesnut...

[dayoungfella]

I know that this is an old discussion that keeps rearing it's ugly head...but it's been bugging me (and other club and forum members) lately and I feel that somebody needs to come out and vent their frustration.

Is it not obvious that the forum needs an 'Off Topic' section like almost every other forum has?

I take the point this is a Mini forum and so discussion should be kept Mini related. However, the forum is also a social hub for members and enthusiasts alike and the banter is likely to drift off topic every now and then.

I'm not suggesting that we should be able to post funny Youtube videos or advertise an old dining room table for sale, but I am suggesting that we can discuss topics that are of a more general interest.

Perfect example is the topic that Dilogoat posted about his friends car being stolen. A topic which is of interest to forum members who may live nearby and need a reminder that they may want to take extra precautions when parking their Mini (or any car for that matter) overnight. The topic disappeared next day.

If a topic is not of interest to a forum member, then don't read it. It's pretty straight forward.

The forum has seen a boost in activity over the last while but I can see people disappearing very quickly if the moderating continues in the draconian way that it has been of late.

This may seem like very harsh criticism as I know that a lot of hard work goes into running a forum, and this is something that is very much appreciated - but please do us a favour and cut us all some slack.

I'm a member of quite few car related forums and they all seem to manage with having an 'Off Topic' section.

Can the committee/moderators please reconsider this argument and the strict way in which the forum is run?

Thanks,
Neil

[Dilogoat]

To be honest, I know I posted in the wrong section so I have no issues with it being moved, but deleted? Seriously!

I have been a forum member for a long time and I pop in and out and read things from time to time and it has been a great resource for me. I have however been pushed away from joining as a club member. I understand that this is an special interest forum but as Niall said that shouldn't limit discussions to just Minis. Threads go off-topic and in EVERY other forum I am a member of they handle this by either splitting the thread or moving it to its rightful place. Deleting it is just silly.

I have heard personal details from people on this forum of their annoyance that threads are locked or deleted for straying off topic or being off-topic. To be honest, as an outsider I feel that this forum is not a welcoming environment and I would rather own my Mini peacfully that subject myself to the whims of a Moderator. Moderators are there to police a forum and provide a place that suits the needs of its members. Why ruin a great resource by applying such ridiculous and pointless rules to an already touchy subject.

Make an off-topic section so people can discuss their non-Mini related endeavours. Make it so that people can enjoy their Minis AND their other car with the people they want to share it with. In my experience forums are full of healpful and knowledgeble people ready to advise and consult. These people are quite often knowledgeable in more than just minis. Take me for example, I have done most of the work on my car myself, so I can help there. I know PC better and can offer advice there. Why lock it down so I can't aid people there too. At the beginning of a young forum there needs to be direction, but after I don't know how many years a forum this established should provide for the numerous not the select few. I don't mean to make this sound like a rant but I feel -

[Dilogoat]

that there needs to be a leaniancy introduced.

Thanks,

Dilogoat.

[StanO'Toole]

[quote="dayoungfella]However, the forum is also a social hub for members and enthusiasts alike and the banter[/quote] You can bait the wife but you can't bait the banter!

[Kenneth Murphy]

i agree with the lads on this, i'm a member of other mini specific forums and there is off topic parts on them, everybody on these forums has good banter and there seems to be no problems caused by this... i think its very single minded of some of the moderators to delete off topic posts, in my opinion it would also intice more people to join up of they could talk about future projects they may be tinkin about doing, my friend is building a v-tec mini at the moment and from talking to a certain bearded man with a v-tec mini he has come to the conclusion that there is no point joining the imoc due to his being shunned and being put down

[Billy]

Let me give a simple example of where an "Off Topic" section hasn't worked.

MiniResource, which for many years was undeniably the most active Mini forum in Ireland, currently has 400117 posts. 204404 are in the off-topic "Lounge". Hence over 50% of everything discussed on MR was absolutely nothing to do with Minis. And where is Resource now? Many of the posters have migrated to the IMOC forum and have been very welcome.
We don't want to go the same way as MR did.

Let's stick to Minis.

Billy

[gareth]

Are you saying there is something wrong with beards Kenneth?

I have to say I was slightly lost as to why dilagoats thread about his mates car was locked and deleted. Maybe someone has a simple explanation so I will hold judgement for now. Maybe we are very limited on web space or something. I don't know I'm not very knowlagable with computers and Internet and stuff.
Either way I really think this is a good forum and I know some people put a lot of time into running it and that should be aggknowlaged. However as a lot of us have become friends here it may be worth considering being able to chat about other interests we share too rather than having to go to other forums too. But like I said I don't really understand Internet stuff much so maybe I'm wrong.

Just said I'd get my opinion in before the thread locked.

[Kenneth Murphy]

no gareth i'm not but obviously there is a problem wit non a series minis

[gareth]

No disrespect Billy. Your comments may be true but from being a member of MR too I felt that the activity on that forum has dwindled from both a number of members selling thier minis and moving on to new hobbies thus not having an interest in mini chat or a larger issue of members having personal dissagrements and taking these out on the durum causing divitions and arguments and bans that sone felt were justified and others didn't causing more arguments.
So the lesson to learn here is all stay friends and all learn to consider eachothers views on matters.
As I said that's just my opinion not gospel.

[Billy]

no gareth i'm not but obviously there is a problem wit non a series minis

Kenny, get off the stage. Where has there been a problem with non-A-series engined Minis? I am not aware of myself or any other of the forum moderators deleting posts from anyone with a VTEC-engined Mini? Our own club president is currently building such a beast so I think you're raising a red herring there.

As regards Dilogoat's post, I saw it posted on other Irish motoring fora so it got plenty of attention. As most of those who feel the need to contribute to every post on this forum had already offered to keep a watch out for the car, I left it run for 24 hours and then deleted it.

Keep focussed guys. Unlike other groups, the Irish Mini Owners Club is much more than an internet forum. It has been around for 21 years, most of those without a forum. This club is more about the events and regional meetings which are organised on your behalf all over Ireland by unpaid enthusiasts and those events should provide more social interaction than the forum can. The forum is just a small part of what we are about and the club would survive without it if it had to.

Those of us who pay our membership and organise events are in it for the long term. If you want to raise the issue at next year's AGM, feel free.

Billy

[StanO'Toole]

I'm going to put it straight out there and say I am not a payed up member so I don't have much say on the issue at hand. The forum and the I.M.O.C is general is a big part of me. I'v been having a bit of family trouble and stuff lately and to go on the forum to look at peoples project and the work they put into the car we all love has helped me in a way that nothing else would, its made me work for something and to set my mind to something which I adore, working on Minis. I came to this forum not knowing much and have learned so much and made very good friends along the way who have always been there to help me, and just with Minis. The way the forum is now is very good and very active. An off topic section would be nice to have the crack and banter with all the friends I'v made but just the one section as otherwise you'd never be able to keep with all the new posts. Either way, no matter what way the forum is it is a Mini forum that offers an amazing amount of help, with parts and help from the people on it.

[Kenneth Murphy]

Kenny, get off the stage.

billy get down off your high horse!!!!!!!!!!!

[Billy]

I'm going to put it straight out there and say I am not a payed up member so I don't have much say on the issue at hand. The forum and the I.M.O.C is general is a big part of me. I'v been having a bit of family trouble and stuff lately and to go on the forum to look at peoples project and the work they put into the car we all love has helped me in a way that nothing else would, its made me work for something and to set my mind to something which I adore, working on Minis. I came to this forum not knowing much and have learned so much and made very good friends along the way who have always been there to help me, and just with Minis. The way the forum is now is very good and very active. An off topic section would be nice to have the crack and banter with all the friends I'v made but just the one section as otherwise you'd never be able to keep with all the new posts. Either way, no matter what way the forum is it is a Mini forum that offers an amazing amount of help, with parts and help from the people on it.

Thank you Stan

[Billy]

Folks, there has always been a problem with internet forums and it is this. It is all too easy to throw in an off-the-cuff remark or snide remark from the safety of your own home or office (when the boss isn't looking). If any of you want to really get to know the people you have interacted with on this forum, why not come along to the next club meeting or event and air your views face to face. Better still, the club is always looking for new people with new ideas to get involved in the running of the club. I would have far more respect for your suggestions if you did.

Billy

[dayoungfella]

Let me give a simple example of where an "Off Topic" section hasn't worked.

MiniResource, which for many years was undeniably the most active Mini forum in Ireland, currently has 400117 posts. 204404 are in the off-topic "Lounge". Hence over 50% of everything discussed on MR was absolutely nothing to do with Minis. And where is Resource now? Many of the posters have migrated to the IMOC forum and have been very welcome.
We don't want to go the same way as MR did.

Let's stick to Minis.

Billy

http://www.octane.ie/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=6

http://mk1-forum.net/viewforum.php?f=11 ... 231b799795

http://forum.minicooper.org/forumdisplay.php?f=113

http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/in ... howforum=2

Just a few examples of very successful forums with 'Off Topic' sections.

[Kenneth Murphy]

turbominis.co.uk

[Merlin]

Unfortantly this statment is only too through,

The forum has seen a boost in activity over the last while but I can see people disappearing very quickly if the moderating continues in the draconian way that it has been of late.

I realy am not one for arguing and normaly just vote with my feet, but I have to say there is a fantastic core eliment to this Club with top class members that have realy brought the mini comunity forward in Ireland an a massive well done to you all you know who you are.

But as an outsider looking in I can only offer one piece of advive never lose sight of the fact your club is only as good as it is becaus of your members and your following. People who run clubs get so caught up in the running that they some times see them selves as the important ones and losse sight of the fact that there is no club with out members only a group of enthusiasts with no one to share the enjoyment with.

This topic is VERY impoatant in the future devlopment of the IMOC IMHO please every one treat it with the respect it deserves, no pety arguing, this is not a personal grudge match between any member but a debate which needs to be openly descussed and cleared up in a respectfull and educated manner
Keep it up folks
Best regards,
Paul.

[Dilogoat]

I agree Paul.

Billy - if you can explain to me why I would bother come to a meeting of members when in 21 posts on this forum I have been met with so much resistance. Have a thread like the removed after 24 hours is a) not long enough for anyone who might have spotted it to mention they saw it and b) undoes the point of the forum.

There was an incident earlier this year if I'm not mistaken where due to members of a forum and their off-topic section, a guy's car that was stolen was found and recovered by some members who saw it and boxed it in with the thief inside. This was some days after the initial report. 24 hours? Pfft.

As Paul has said this shouldn't descend into a pissing match because this will only reinforce what everyone on here has been saying, both for and against. MiniResource isn't failing because of it's off-topic section, in fact failing is completely false interpretation. MR has seen a MASSIVE decline in members due to politics. Who was right and wrong is irrelevant and the issues that caused the problems are unrelated to off-topic discussion. The biggest point to note about MR is that the recession put back a lot of projects and people had to sell their minis (A LOT of them) and people left the forum. Commuties ebb and flow and MR is actually back on the rise again since the good weather and the general mood in Ireland seems to have settled.

Blaming off-topic discussions for forum decline is short sighted and plain wrong. So I propose a poll to see what THE MEMBERS want. AGMs are a false economy.

[Dilogoat]

Kenny, get off the stage.

billy get down off your high horse!!!!!!!!!!!

Kenneth, that kind of forum talk is what won't help this situation. There's no point in snapping at each other, it just leads to grudges.

[Billy]

Dilogoat,

You have asked why you should attend club meetings and I will put it like this.

As Merlin has correctly said, any club is about its members. It's the members who organise and support events, pay their memberships, look after the day-to-day running of the club etc.

As we are aware (we the committee), only about half of the current IMOC membership use this forum so their opinions are never heard, except if they make the effort to attend the AGM. As the AGM is only once a year, the club structure allows for monthly meetings to be held at locations which we try to make as assessible to as many members as possible.

At those local meetings, members get involved in the organising of future events, and more importantly, get the chance to get to know each other etc. If we don't have those meetings, most of the club-specific events wouldn't happen. And by that I don't mean the Terenures, Trims, Mosneys as they are not organised by us.

So essentially, no meetings, no club events. No club events, no club.

I would urge you to consider coming along to the next regional meeting and get involved. All too often (and this is not directly at you personally), those who criticise the club most, rarely help out in the running yet very easily put aside their misgivings when it comes to selling their stuff and therefore profiting from the club's facilities. The IMOC is not perfect but those of us who do regularly give of our time, do so to keep it as the excellent club it is.

Billy

[Billy]

Ran out of space in the last post so Dilogoat (and as I don't know who you are, I'll have to keep calling you that), feel free to set up a poll in the Members-Only section of this forum.

Billy

[dayoungfella]

I would urge you to consider coming along to the next regional meeting and get involved. All too often (and this is not directly at you personally), those who criticise the club most, rarely help out in the running yet very easily put aside their misgivings when it comes to selling their stuff and therefore profiting from the club's facilities. The IMOC is not perfect but those of us who do regularly give of our time, do so to keep it as the excellent club it is.

Billy

I'll try and make it to the next one.

As the issue I raised is solely to do with the running of the forum however, I think raising it here is as good a place as any.

[dayoungfella]

Ran out of space in the last post so Dilogoat (and as I don't know who you are, I'll have to keep calling you that), feel free to set up a poll in the Members-Only section of this forum.

Billy

There's a member only section???

[smur89]

Ran out of space in the last post so Dilogoat (and as I don't know who you are, I'll have to keep calling you that), feel free to set up a poll in the Members-Only section of this forum.

Billy

There's a member only section???

Should be just under the "Wanted" section Neil. I believe there was an issue a few months ago where members couldnt see it and had to PM someone to get it sorted...?

[Billy]

Send a PM to irishminis (Simon O'Carroll) who is the forum administrator with your name and club membership number. Once he has established that you are a current paid-up member, Simon will then set up your access to the Members Only section of the forum. The reason for this procedure is that many forum users use obscure pseudonyms which do not give any clue to the user's identity.

Billy